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    kherezae

    Recent Updates (and related wonkiness)

    Partly based on recent member suggestions and partly because it's something that has been floating in the back of my mind for a while, I shuffled the member groups around a bit today, creating a Newbies group for members who have contributed fewer than 15 items of content (topics, comments, stories, articles, etc) that automatically promotes to Member once you hit 15 content. I also had the site shuffle members into two inactive groups if they haven't been around.

    • Members who haven't logged in for 60+ days and haven't posted content for 100+ days were put in the Inactive member group.
    • Members who haven't logged in for 100+ days and haven't posted content for 200+ days were put in the Prune member group.

    We'll be discussing what to do with these differentiated groups as Staff. There's the potential that those in the Prune member group might be deleted permanently, but we haven't had time to discuss that and decide yet, so we'll see. If you have any input on the matter, please let us know in a comment!

    Anyway, the shuffling led to some permissions gaps for a little bit, so if you couldn't access part of the forum temporarily, my bad! Should be fixed, but let me know if you run into any problems.

    Additionally, I added new guidelines and forms in the Feedback / Beta Reading forum (originally the Find a Beta forum) and archived the Submissions & Review forum.

    So here are some questions up for discussion that we could use input on.

    • Do you think it would be good to delete the accounts of people who haven't logged in for over 100 days/posted for over 200 days?
      • There's no member list on this software; would you be curious to see our active Members vs Newbies vs Inactive and Purge members now that they've been sorted based on activity? (I ask because I'd be curious lol)
    • Currently Newbies cannot see inside the Brainstorming subforum and can't post their own topics (but can reply to topics) in the Feedback subforum until they're auto-promoted at 15 content items posted. Currently they can see anything posted in the Library, but we could change that. This is to provide a little buffer where new members have to participate in the community a little before they can access members' personal story ideas and before they can request specific feedback on their work.
      • What do you think about these limitations? Would you suggest keeping them in a sort of "Guest View" of the Library until they promote to full membership?
      • Alternatively we could add a Newbie Friendly Library category, but that might be overkill...?
      • @Penguinball suggested that in addition to the 15 content minimum requirement, Newbies need to review something in the Library in order to gain full membership. Something like this is doable, but has downsides too; if there's no admin online for a few hours around the time a member fulfills that requirement, they'll have to wait until an admin notices to receive their promotion.
        • What do we think? Worth it? Should there be some other requirement(s) or alternative options, such as posting a writing resource, posting an introduction, etc?
        • If we limit Newbie access to the Library, how would this be impacted?
    • How do the new Feedback / Beta Reading forms and guidelines look? Anything you would recommend changing or adding?
    • @Penguinball also suggested a sort of purge of the Feedback forum at the first of the year, archiving old threads and essentially re-surveying members to see who's actively willing to be a beta reader/provide feedback. This is what we have at the moment as our best means of determining our beta reader population.
      • What do you think? Any suggestions? As a note I'm going to try to find a way to make a page that essentially shows those search results plus a snippet of the member's Beta Reading tab on their profile, but I'm not sure yet whether I'll be able to.

    Any other thoughts or feedback you have are more than welcome! I was more long-winded than I intended to be; apologies!

    Edited by kherezae




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    Currently Newbies cannot see inside the Brainstorming subforum and can't post their own topics (but can reply to topics) in the Feedback subforum until they're auto-promoted at 15 content items posted. Currently they can see anything posted in the Library, but we could change that. This is to provide a little buffer where new members have to participate in the community a little before they can access members' personal story ideas and before they can request specific feedback on their work.

    Yay to the limitation to making new topics in the feedback section, thanks a lot!

    I'm torn about being able to see the brainstorming subforum and the library content - both of those are excellent opportunities to help others out and earn member status by posting valuable input/feedback, but on the other hand I can perfectly understand if members are a bit iffy about sharing their ideas or submissions with just about anyone who just signed up. An additional newby-friendly library section is not necessary, I think, we have a public one.

    I'm also torn about making it a requirement to review something - we all want genuine feedback that the reviewer has put some thought into, right? Making reviewing a requirement could encourage reviews that don't help because someone just randomly posts "Yeah, I liked this" in order to fulfill a requirement.

    Archiving the threads in the beta reader forum every now and then sounds reasonable. Can we access the archive, though? 'coz I wouldn't change anything about mine, so I'd love to be able to just copy and paste it - otherwise maybe threads that haven't had any replies for X months could be archived, and we could just reply to our own beta reader profiles with "up to date" every now and then to keep them in the actrive section?

    About inactive member groups: Not logging in for 100+ days and not posting for 200+ days is not that long - a longer stay at the hospital (I've been in hospital for 3 months myself once) or going offroad for a year and being too busy to write can easily get you there, so I think for deleting accounts the members should be even more inactive than that. Something like not logging in for a year, and then they'd get an automated email that their account is about to be deleted due to inactivity?

    Oh, and yes, I'd be curious about member stats, too, if you find an easy way to make them available 🙂

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    • Do you think it would be good to delete the accounts of people who haven't logged in for over 100 days/posted for over 200 days?

    I think it's better not to delete, but to keep an inactive group. I joined a graphics forum a long time ago and then forgot about it for a few years and then went back to it and it was nice to see that my account still existed. I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with deleting, but might come across as a bit passive-aggressive?

    • There's no member list on this software; would you be curious to see our active Members vs Newbies vs Inactive and Purge members now that they've been sorted based on activity?

    Sure - could be interesting! But I wouldn't be upset if there wasn't a member list.

    • Currently Newbies cannot see inside the Brainstorming subforum and can't post their own topics (but can reply to topics) in the Feedback subforum until they're auto-promoted at 15 content items posted. Currently they can see anything posted in the Library, but we could change that. This is to provide a little buffer where new members have to participate in the community a little before they can access members' personal story ideas and before they can request specific feedback on their work. [And sub-questions]

    I like the idea that new members need to post at least 15 posts to be able to post their own work in the Library or request Feedback. When we were on the previous forum, I saw at least one person go directly to requesting feedback and thought to myself how did they ever think they were going to be noticed if they didn't give back to the community? It just seems a bit arrogant to me to join a forum for discussion fantasy and the first thing you do is go and post your own work and request feedback without participating in anything else or offering feedback to other people.

    I think Newbie Friendly Library is a bit overkill as you mentioned. Ideally people won't stay in that group for very long and it's not that difficult to post 15 posts.

    I think my preference would be to allow a guest view/replying to existing topics/Library submissions for Newbies. I think the forum would come across as more open and inviting if people are at least allowed to look around when they sign up. Maybe when the forum gets really popular and there's a reputation and people feel like it's worth waiting to post 15 things to be able to see the Library, it could be worth considering. However, at the moment I feel like the downsides (turning off people, making it too difficult to see what's happening, etc) outweigh the positives (protecting people's ideas, etc).

    I quite like the idea of people having to review something before they can post their own content in the Library. It's not a big ask - you don't need to write a thesis on someone's work. However, I do get that some people would find it annoying and that it be frustrating to have to wait to be promoted and could potentially put people off. But it really encourages people to think about giving feedback in addition to getting feedback. If people don't give feedback, then nobody gets feedback. Is there a way to make it so that the promotion happens automatically when people post a reply in the feedback forum and/or library? Also as a counter-argument, can someone really be that desperate to post your work that you can't wait until the next day to be promoted?

    • How do the new Feedback / Beta Reading forms and guidelines look? Anything you would recommend changing or adding?

    They look good to me. Although maybe it's just me, but I don't understand why the Seeking Beta is the main text for the Forms topic and then there are links to offering to be a beta, seeking writing buddy and seeking feedback - they're quite easy to miss (I almost missed them). (Also it took me a while to figure out what it means to click through the pages...still so many things to learn about the new forum!)

    • Purge of the Feedback forum at the first of the year, archiving old threads and essentially re-surveying members to see who's actively willing to be a beta reader/provide feedback. This is what we have at the moment as our best means of determining our beta reader population.

    I think a purge sounds like a good idea and a survey also sounds like a good idea.

    Do you think it would be possible to add some more options to the beta reader survey? E.g. I could probably volunteer to be a high-level beta reader who shares general thoughts on characters/plot/flow, but I don't have time to read proofread or do extensive consistency checks. Or maybe we could have "depends on length", "depends on sub-genre" as options? I know it won't be good to have too many options and people should cover these off in their beta reading profile anyway, but just throwing out some ideas.

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    36 minutes ago, Manu said:

    I'm also torn about making it a requirement to review something - we all want genuine feedback that the reviewer has put some thought into, right? Making reviewing a requirement could encourage reviews that don't help because someone just randomly posts "Yeah, I liked this" in order to fulfill a requirement.

    That is a very good point! It makes it hard to quantify if that counts or not, and just makes more work for the admins. On the other hand though, even if they halfass or fake the review, do you lose anything? Sounds like an opportunity to gain to me.

     

    Regarding deleting old members... What do we gain from deleting them? Just having a cleaner list? What happens to old posts they would have made? Personally, I delete old stuff all the time, so I get the urge to want things to be tidy and orderly, but is it worth the effort?

     

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    46 minutes ago, Manu said:

    Archiving the threads in the beta reader forum every now and then sounds reasonable. Can we access the archive, though? 'coz I wouldn't change anything about mine, so I'd love to be able to just copy and paste it - otherwise maybe threads that haven't had any replies for X months could be archived, and we could just reply to our own beta reader profiles with "up to date" every now and then to keep them in the active section?

    About inactive member groups: Not logging in for 100+ days and not posting for 200+ days is not that long - a longer stay at the hospital (I've been in hospital for 3 months myself once) or going offroad for a year and being too busy to write can easily get you there, so I think for deleting accounts the members should be even more inactive than that. Something like not logging in for a year, and then they'd get an automated email that their account is about to be deleted due to inactivity?

    Oh, and yes, I'd be curious about member stats, too, if you find an easy way to make them available 🙂

    We could just archive inactive ones, sure. Also they will be visible in the archive, yes, you just wouldn't be able to post on them. Additionally we have a feature I haven't activated yet, which is the ability to bump topics, that would be perfect for this. I've just enabled that feature for members to bump their own topics once daily (if no one has posted in it that day) in the Brainstorming, Feedback, and Published Members forums.

    100 days is over 3 months, which is why I thought it might be reasonable for having not even visited, and 200 days is over 6 months, which is a long time not to post. Left to my own devices I'd at least give a warning of account deletion in X days if they don't log in at that point, and then give them a month or more to at least poke their head in and say they still exist before deleting. But I also disappeared for months at a time when I was learning Korean, so... hm.

    Making member stats permanently visible would be tricky, but I could certainly just post a summary periodically for curiosity's sake!

    47 minutes ago, Amblygon said:

    I think it's better not to delete, but to keep an inactive group. I joined a graphics forum a long time ago and then forgot about it for a few years and then went back to it and it was nice to see that my account still existed. I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with deleting, but might come across as a bit passive-aggressive?

    (...)

    They look good to me. Although maybe it's just me, but I don't understand why the Seeking Beta is the main text for the Forms topic and then there are links to offering to be a beta, seeking writing buddy and seeking feedback - they're quite easy to miss (I almost missed them). (Also it took me a while to figure out what it means to click through the pages...still so many things to learn about the new forum!)

    (...)

    Do you think it would be possible to add some more options to the beta reader survey? E.g. I could probably volunteer to be a high-level beta reader who shares general thoughts on characters/plot/flow, but I don't have time to read proofread or do extensive consistency checks. Or maybe we could have "depends on length", "depends on sub-genre" as options? I know it won't be good to have too many options and people should cover these off in their beta reading profile anyway, but just throwing out some ideas.

    That's a good point about not deleting accounts. Maybe it could be something like every 3 to 6 months of total inactivity we just shoot out an email reminding you we exist :p I didn't keep all you wrote about the Newbies group in the quote, but I get where you're coming from overall, and it's definitely a factor that not being able to view stories might be a major let down for new members. Maybe sending out a request for more members to post public work would help, not sure? Also, at this time I have no way of working out an auto-promote based on reviewing something in the Library, but you're right, it's probably not critical if they have to wait less than a day for the promotion.

    I can definitely alter the Forms topic to make more sense at first glance. I just liked the pagination because it allowed me to link specifically to each form, but that's totally not necessary, in the end. I'll adjust that this evening.

    I can add more options to the beta reader survey, but I don't think it's a great idea as it will just clutter the search process for beta readers. Although... I could maybe create an additional field where you can multi-select the elements you're interested in working on for beta reading... I'll investigate that when I can.

    6 minutes ago, Penguinball said:

    That is a very good point! It makes it hard to quantify if that counts or not, and just makes more work for the admins. On the other hand though, even if they halfass or fake the review, do you lose anything? Sounds like an opportunity to gain to me.

     

    Regarding deleting old members... What do we gain from deleting them? Just having a cleaner list? What happens to old posts they would have made? Personally, I delete old stuff all the time, so I get the urge to want things to be tidy and orderly, but is it worth the effort?

    I agree with both points. Like you I tend toward deleting/tidying, but you're right, it doesn't gain us anything.

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    4 hours ago, Manu said:

    Yay to the limitation to making new topics in the feedback section, thanks a lot!

    I'm torn about being able to see the brainstorming subforum and the library content - both of those are excellent opportunities to help others out and earn member status by posting valuable input/feedback, but on the other hand I can perfectly understand if members are a bit iffy about sharing their ideas or submissions with just about anyone who just signed up. An additional newby-friendly library section is not necessary, I think, we have a public one.

    I'm also torn about making it a requirement to review something - we all want genuine feedback that the reviewer has put some thought into, right? Making reviewing a requirement could encourage reviews that don't help because someone just randomly posts "Yeah, I liked this" in order to fulfill a requirement.

    Archiving the threads in the beta reader forum every now and then sounds reasonable. Can we access the archive, though? 'coz I wouldn't change anything about mine, so I'd love to be able to just copy and paste it - otherwise maybe threads that haven't had any replies for X months could be archived, and we could just reply to our own beta reader profiles with "up to date" every now and then to keep them in the actrive section?

    About inactive member groups: Not logging in for 100+ days and not posting for 200+ days is not that long - a longer stay at the hospital (I've been in hospital for 3 months myself once) or going offroad for a year and being too busy to write can easily get you there, so I think for deleting accounts the members should be even more inactive than that. Something like not logging in for a year, and then they'd get an automated email that their account is about to be deleted due to inactivity?

    Oh, and yes, I'd be curious about member stats, too, if you find an easy way to make them available 🙂

    I'm late as usual but I'm replying to this anyway.

    I'm torn on this, too. On the old forum, we had it so that the brainstorming section as well as a few other sections (such as the library itself, which is no longer necessary in this case, and the NaNo forum) so that only those who were registered could see the posts there, in order to help give members that extra security. And I also agree about the newbie-friendly library section.

    4 hours ago, Manu said:

    I'm also torn about making it a requirement to review something - we all want genuine feedback that the reviewer has put some thought into, right? Making reviewing a requirement could encourage reviews that don't help because someone just randomly posts "Yeah, I liked this" in order to fulfill a requirement.

    I can agree with this, too. And one of the reasons we haven't enforced any kind of a review requirement is because we really don't want this to be one of those communities where you're basically forced into doing X in order to get Y...on the one hand, I can see the reasoning behind doing such a thing, but typically it really only works in, like, hardcore critique sites. We're not really hardcore.

    4 hours ago, Manu said:

    About inactive member groups: Not logging in for 100+ days and not posting for 200+ days is not that long - a longer stay at the hospital (I've been in hospital for 3 months myself once) or going offroad for a year and being too busy to write can easily get you there, so I think for deleting accounts the members should be even more inactive than that. Something like not logging in for a year, and then they'd get an automated email that their account is about to be deleted due to inactivity?

    The thing is that most of the accounts that haven't logged in 200+ days, especially, are people who registered over the last two and a half years and just never bothered to log back in again or whatever for whatever reason. Like, most of the people in that group are people who've been registered since the beginning of the forum. So I mean...if all the emails and posts on social media and such haven't made them decide to come back, then chances are they're probably not going to and their accounts are probably going to just sit inactive, which is fine.

    I think I agree with this, though- we could send out an email to those who haven't been active in over a year and then if they don't respond or log in after X amount of days/months their accounts will be deleted. The downside to sending out an email is that sometimes the emails can get sent to spam folders even when they shouldn't, so those people may not ever receive the email. But on the other hand, if they really cared about getting updates, they probably would have logged in more often.

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    15 minutes ago, Jedi Knight Muse said:

    The thing is that most of the accounts that haven't logged in 200+ days, especially, are people who registered over the last two and a half years and just never bothered to log back in again or whatever for whatever reason. Like, most of the people in that group are people who've been registered since the beginning of the forum. So I mean...if all the emails and posts on social media and such haven't made them decide to come back, then chances are they're probably not going to and their accounts are probably going to just sit inactive, which is fine.

    I think I agree with this, though- we could send out an email to those who haven't been active in over a year and then if they don't respond or log in after X amount of days/months their accounts will be deleted. The downside to sending out an email is that sometimes the emails can get sent to spam folders even when they shouldn't, so those people may not ever receive the email. But on the other hand, if they really cared about getting updates, they probably would have logged in more often.

    Hm, good point. I could change the algorithm so only accounts who haven't logged in for that long and also who have never posted at all are sorted into the Purge group if that would help. If they've never posted at all, there's really nothing to save, after all, so maybe it would be worth sending those members a warning and then deleting their accounts. 

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    4 hours ago, Amblygon said:

    I think it's better not to delete, but to keep an inactive group. I joined a graphics forum a long time ago and then forgot about it for a few years and then went back to it and it was nice to see that my account still existed. I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with deleting, but might come across as a bit passive-aggressive?

    Honestly, I kind of doubt it would seem passive-aggressive. Since we're talking about people who've been registered since at least some time in the first year the forum was opened, if they really cared about their accounts and such, they probably would have logged in more often and posted, you know? I don't mean to make that sound as harsh as it does, but it's probably true. If an account sits unused for X amount of years, it's not unreasonable for admins to decide to purge it due to inactivity.

     

    4 hours ago, Amblygon said:

    When we were on the previous forum, I saw at least one person go directly to requesting feedback and thought to myself how did they ever think they were going to be noticed if they didn't give back to the community? It just seems a bit arrogant to me to join a forum for discussion fantasy and the first thing you do is go and post your own work and request feedback without participating in anything else or offering feedback to other people.

    Yeah, unfortunately this is something that happened a fair amount on the old forum. 😐 I suppose I probably could have tried to set it up so that you had to have X amount of posts in order to post in Y forums, I just never thought of it or anything. It might have helped at least a little bit, though.

     

    4 hours ago, Amblygon said:

    I think my preference would be to allow a guest view/replying to existing topics/Library submissions for Newbies. I think the forum would come across as more open and inviting if people are at least allowed to look around when they sign up. Maybe when the forum gets really popular and there's a reputation and people feel like it's worth waiting to post 15 things to be able to see the Library, it could be worth considering. However, at the moment I feel like the downsides (turning off people, making it too difficult to see what's happening, etc) outweigh the positives (protecting people's ideas, etc).

    Hm. See, on the old forum, we had it so that the question of the day topics could be replied to by guests, and there was not a SINGLE time where a guest ACTUALLY replied to any of those posts. 😐 The other thing is that it, theoretically, could open us up to spam/trolls if we just let any guests reply to whatever topics they want. I could see people just deciding that because you can post as a guest they may as well just keep posting as a guest and not register. I mean, maybe not a lot of people, but some. The possibility of spam might be a little more manageable depending on whatever CAPTCHA/security settings are set up, but if someone really wanted to decide to troll, they'd be able to get past the CAPTCHA to do so. (Not that I'm expecting anyone to want to troll, but you never know. I've had it happen in the past with role playing forums, though I think it only happened once.) So yeah, I feel like the negatives definitely outweigh the positives in this case.

    4 hours ago, Amblygon said:

    I quite like the idea of people having to review something before they can post their own content in the Library. It's not a big ask - you don't need to write a thesis on someone's work. However, I do get that some people would find it annoying and that it be frustrating to have to wait to be promoted and could potentially put people off. But it really encourages people to think about giving feedback in addition to getting feedback. If people don't give feedback, then nobody gets feedback. Is there a way to make it so that the promotion happens automatically when people post a reply in the feedback forum and/or library? Also as a counter-argument, can someone really be that desperate to post your work that you can't wait until the next day to be promoted?

    I mean, you're not wrong- we don't expect people to write a thesis as a review to someone else's submission. On the other hand, though, as @Manu pointed out, submitting a review that's as simple as "I like this a lot" with no actual, useful feedback in order to bypass the requirement isn't exactly a great thing, and I could totally see this being a thing people do. You're right, though- if people don't give feedback, no one gets feedback. That's honestly one of the things we struggled with a LOT on the old forum, and I really don't want to see that carry over here, although it already seems to not be going in that direction, so that's good.

    I'm not sure whether there's a way to do that (I'm replying to you without having read the replies from Kher yet, I'm just going replying as I go 😛 ), but maybe Kher knows.

    Hm. I mean, I suppose it depends on how badly they need feedback. XD But you're right, if they want the feedback that badly they should be able to wait a day or so to do so.

    5 hours ago, Amblygon said:

    Do you think it would be possible to add some more options to the beta reader survey? E.g. I could probably volunteer to be a high-level beta reader who shares general thoughts on characters/plot/flow, but I don't have time to read proofread or do extensive consistency checks. Or maybe we could have "depends on length", "depends on sub-genre" as options? I know it won't be good to have too many options and people should cover these off in their beta reading profile anyway, but just throwing out some ideas.

    Yes, I like this idea.

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    12 minutes ago, kherezae said:

    Hm, good point. I could change the algorithm so only accounts who haven't logged in for that long and also who have never posted at all are sorted into the Purge group if that would help. If they've never posted at all, there's really nothing to save, after all, so maybe it would be worth sending those members a warning and then deleting their accounts. 

    I mean, it's the very least that we can do. And honestly, if people SOMEHOW after X amount of months/years go "hey, this forum exists, I should check it out" and they find that their account is gone...if they really want to be a part of the community again, they'll register an account and will hopefully decide to be more active going forward. So yeah, this sounds like a good idea.

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    4 hours ago, Penguinball said:

    Regarding deleting old members... What do we gain from deleting them? Just having a cleaner list? What happens to old posts they would have made? Personally, I delete old stuff all the time, so I get the urge to want things to be tidy and orderly, but is it worth the effort?

    I suppose we don't actually gain anything, especially now that the member list isn't something members can see, so it's not like potential members are coming to the forum, seeing how many inactive registered members there are and getting scared off (trust me, this is a thing that happens). Those whose accounts are deleted would gain the benefit of not receiving the e-mails from us any more, I guess.

    As far as what happens to the old posts, I assume it'd be the same as on the old forum- the posts stay, but it basically makes it look like the person who posted them was doing so as a guest and not as a registered member with a profile.

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    4 hours ago, kherezae said:

    100 days is over 3 months, which is why I thought it might be reasonable for having not even visited, and 200 days is over 6 months, which is a long time not to post. Left to my own devices I'd at least give a warning of account deletion in X days if they don't log in at that point, and then give them a month or more to at least poke their head in and say they still exist before deleting. But I also disappeared for months at a time when I was learning Korean, so... hm.

    Unfortunately it seems like this is one of those catch 22 things, because while real life does come first...if they were really interested in being part of the community, they'd find a way to make time for the forum, too. But I mean, maybe I'm just coming from the frustration of having to deal with the large amount of inactive members of the last two and a half years, so :P.

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    4 hours ago, kherezae said:

    Maybe sending out a request for more members to post public work would help, not sure?

    Lol, I just realized I posted the above comment without actually being done replying to you, oops.
    Anyway, the only thing about this is that not everyone is willing to put their writing in the public section of the library like that. I mean, I suppose for me personally it would depend on what I had for a story that I was willing to put in that section. But otherwise...I feel better putting it in the members only part of the library, generally. I mean, even Wattpad doesn't let you view things without a registered account. So if they can register an account on a website like Wattpad (especially with its plagiarism issues) in order to view the stories there, then they should be able to register an account in order to do the same here on the forum.

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    I think it might be better to keep the library visible only if you're logged in. If a story is viewable to everyone, even non-members it can be considered published, which can affect future publication possibilities.

    That's the only thing I really have an opinion on.

    Edited by Unicornsky2982
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    1 minute ago, Unicornsky2982 said:

    I think it might be better to keep the library visible only if you're logged in. If a story is viewable to everyone, even non-members it can be considered published, which can affect future publication possibilities.

    That's the only thing I really have an opinion on.

    This is another good point. On the other hand, the point of people wanting to be able to see at least some kind of an example of what's in the library is a good point, too.

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    5 minutes ago, Unicornsky2982 said:

    I think it might be better to keep the library visible only if you're logged in. If a story is viewable to everyone, even non-members it can be considered published, which can affect future publication possibilities.

    That's the only thing I really have an opinion on.

    I agree with you; that's the way it is and will remain. (I mean, it's visible to guests in the sense that they can see that it exists, but they can't read stories in any section except the public one.)

    If no one feels strongly that they'd be more comfortable if Newbies can't read the members only sections of the Library until they hit 15 posts, then we can leave it the way it is now, no problem! Just wanted to check, because I know how it is to be worried that someone might take your work, and when the only thing protecting your work from view is registering with a valid email... well some people would prefer a better buffer than that.

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    Depends on the Library's purpose.

    If it is for people to get help editing, critiquing, getting critiqued and improving their stories, then it shouldn't be public.

    If it is for people to just post their stories then it can be public if people don't mind using up their "first publication" rights.

     

    I'm not really worried about someone stealing my stories as I am about losing the "first publication" rights.  Some publishers are wary of publishing stories that have been posted on a public internet forum, and all the small presses that I know (I do know a few personally) won't consider a story for publication that has been posted on a public forum because the "first publication" rights have already been used.

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    2 hours ago, Unicornsky2982 said:

    I think it might be better to keep the library visible only if you're logged in. If a story is viewable to everyone, even non-members it can be considered published, which can affect future publication possibilities.

    That's the only thing I really have an opinion on.

    From what I understand from other forums, so long as a piece of writing is locked behind a password, it isn't considered public, so you haven't given up first publishing rights. So as long as guests can't view, it would be publishable.

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    9 hours ago, Penguinball said:

    From what I understand from other forums, so long as a piece of writing is locked behind a password, it isn't considered public, so you haven't given up first publishing rights. So as long as guests can't view, it would be publishable.

    This is the rule I've always been told and we've always followed on the forum, which is why the library, whatever form it's in, has always been members only. I think publishers are becoming more accepting of things being posted online because the internet is so prevalent and so many people are using it to be able to get their writing out there and not having to rely on publishers to do so, since there are other ways to get your books out there and make money.

    But yeah, we'll always keep the library as being members only, with giving the option of the public category for those who are willing to put anything there, but I don't know how many people would really be willing to do that. I'm a bit iffy about it myself, for example. But then again, I used to submit my writing on Fanfiction.net and Fictionpress.com and those are definitely not sites that are members only.

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